Photos / Danica Robinson
Styling / Dot Bass
Set / Reece Koetter
Makeup / Sterling Tull
Hair / Jaz Shepard
Art Assist / Kallie Seniff
Photo assist / Noah Avidan
Background Graphics / Christian Salley
Makeup assist / Maddie Goode
Styling assists / Gabby Weis, Sammy
In Conversation with Phil Gomez
Phil: You’re really funny!
Anna: Thank you. People often mistake my sarcasm—it’s so easy to take things out of context. I was being deposed as a witness in Rachel’s suit against Netflix, and my lawyer had to tell me, “If you can’t resist a joke, you have to say it was a joke.” Because when you just read the transcript, it doesn’t always translate.
Phil: I mean, it’s the same with any written message; maybe that’s a good thing that we have voice texting!
Anna: Exactly. And I think a lot of the catchphrases—like when I said, “Oh, you look poor”—everyone in the room knew it was a joke. But the way they framed it in the series, it looked like I was insulting a pregnant woman who came to see me.
Phil: Yeah, they totally made you out to be a villain. You’re just a dry, sarcastic fashion girlie.
Anna: Yeah. I’m not even that original
Phil: Speaking of fashion, how did you and your relationship with Kelly Cutrone happen?
Anna: I always knew of Kelly. I grew up watching The Hills and Kell on Earth, and I read her books. I was really into fashion, so I’d watch and read everything. I think it was translated on MTV when I was in Germany. I did read her book in English… or maybe it was in German? I don’t remember. I’m wondering what Kelly sounds like in German.
Phil: Oh my God.
Anna: She wasn’t really on my radar for a while. But then I went to jail/prison, and when I was on Call Her Daddy with Alex Cooper, she asked me, “Anna, what made you move to New York?” And, you know, it’s never just one thing. (laughs) But they wanted a simple, one-sentence answer, so I said, “Well, I liked Kelly Cutrone. I thought fashion PR was so cool.” Which is like… half the truth.
Alex was like, “Oh my God, that’s crazy!” And apparently, Kelly’s daughter Ava—she’s in her early twenties now—heard it and told Kelly, “Mom, Anna Delvey name-dropped you on Call Her Daddy.” And Kelly was like, “What the fuck is that… what did I do this time?” laughs
Eventually, we got connected—we obviously have so many mutual acquaintances. It was in the summer of 2023. Kelly said, “Let’s do something together for Fashion Week,” and I was like, “Yes, of course.” Not that I had many options—I couldn’t really go anywhere. She came to my apartment and was like, “Oh my God, this is going to be so hard to pull off.”
Our first idea was to do the show inside my apartment, but I guess it looked bigger on video and in the photos I sent her. She was like, “Yeah, we need to rethink this.” So we ended up moving it to an illegal rooftop. It was so much fun. And honestly, given everything that could have gone wrong, I think it was a great success.
Phil: That sounds like the most New York thing ever.
Anna: Yeah, I mean, that whole day was insane. I just wanted to get through it without getting arrested or having someone fall off the rooftop. That would have been good enough..
It was on 9/11, and it was supposed to rain in the afternoon and early evening. So they had to set up the lights and sound system in the morning—on this rooftop we weren’t even allowed to be on. My landlord had told me, “I know your situation. You can go up there by yourself for fresh air, but don’t bring anyone because there are no guardrails.”
I knew I couldn’t ask for his permission because if anything happened, he’d be liable. So really, I was doing him a favor. The doors were open, like the exit door, so I figured it be ok.
Phil: Girl, you just found all the loopholes.
Anna: Exactly. I didn’t want to put him in a position where he was complicit because, realistically, it would’ve been a multimillion-dollar lawsuit if anything had happened.
They wanted to set everything up in the morning, but I kept saying, “Can we wait until the last possible minute?” Because God forbid my superintendent walked up there and saw the whole thing. That would’ve been it.
And that whole day I was getting hair and makeup done and just having people in and out and I was just like, oh my gosh, if only I can make it until like 6 or 7 p.m. without my super knocking on my door asking, “What the fuck is happening on this rooftop?” And everything would have been ruined. Yeah. And so, that whole day I was kind of on pins and needles and like, you can’t really enjoy it when you just constantly expect something awful to happen. And then it’s like 6 or 7 p.m. where it starts raining, and like finally shortly before we were supposed to actually do the show, it stopped. So like everything kind of worked out.
Phil: I love that. But I can only imagine how stressful it was. Producing an event is already nerve-wracking, let alone a fashion show—and on top of that, you were basically doing a guerrilla production. I’d be on edge, too.
Anna: I mean, but Kelly’s a pro. She did most of the heavy lifting.
Phil: Yeah, and you were just absorbing everyone’s anxiety.
Phil: Kelly and I have worked together a few times. That’s why I wanted to ask about your relationship with her. The last time I saw Kelly, we had lunch with the Pornhub girls and then went to the new Patricia Field’s shop. It was so cute—She’d see something fabulous, and she’d be like, “Anna would love this.”
Anna: Oh my God. laughs
Coat and Skirt, SEKS. Earrings and Ring, Laruicci . Necklace, Markland Backus. Wheat paste poster look, Twiggy Moore.
Phil: It was giving mother-daughter
Anna: laughs
Phil: Wait— and you cared for her goats? Did I read that wrong?
Anna: Um, no. So the show was in September, and my lease was ending in early November. I didn’t even try to extend it, especially with the show done—the landlord was pretty upset.
Yeah, and I just didn’t want to stay in that apartment. It was a fifth-floor walk-up, I was completely overpaying for it, and it was a one-bedroom. I was still on house arrest. I had another friend in Goshen, in Orange County—she has a big farm and multiple properties, like 50 acres. She was like, “Just come stay in my cottage. Let’s see what happens with your house arrest.” And I was like, “Okay, that sounds great.”
It felt so good to get out of the city. That was her farm—it’s about 40 minutes away from Kelly. I stayed there for about three months, and then Kelly was like, “Well, just come stay at my place.” Laughs. It gets boring because in the city, even on house arrest, you can have people over—for a meeting or a drink. But it doesn’t really work that way when you’re an hour and a half away from the city. Laughs.
And yeah, It just got boring. That friend of mine—she’s a farm girl. Laughs.
Phil: Did you dive into the farm fantasy? Like, were you picking vegetables and milking cows?
Anna: It was the middle of winter, but she had emus, pigs, donkeys, goats—
Phil: Oh my God.
Anna: Yeah, but it was mid-winter, so I couldn’t live out all my gardening fantasies.
Phil: Well, maybe you can—spring’s coming. Perhaps you can stay there again.
Anna: Yeah, thank God I’m not confined to one spot anymore. What an upgrade. You never really appreciate your freedom until it’s taken away from you. I was like, “Great, I don’t need to figure out how to shoot everything inside my apartment anymore!”. I can go anywhere within 75 miles and do anything.
Phil: Literally, the world is your oyster right now. I mean, 75 miles in comparison, is beyond.
Anna: Yeah, I’m also allowed to travel anywhere in the country—I just have to ask for permission. But so far, they’ve granted me everything. I went to L.A., obviously, for Dancing with the Stars. I had to go back and forth. I went to D.C.; we went to New Orleans for Halloween. What else? We went upstate to Skaneateles, where Kelly is from, to see some of our friends for the weekend. So yeah, it’s fun. I have to report my movements. But it’s better than sitting at home.
Phil: Right? Totally. I know you love New York so much, but why? What is it about New York that makes you want to be here?
Anna: I guess New York is the only city where I feel like—I don’t know. When I lived in Paris for two years when I was younger, I always wondered what was going on elsewhere. But when I’m in New York, I never think about what’s happening in other cities.
I don’t have that feeling anywhere else. Even when I was in L.A., I was wondering, “What’s going on in New York?” But when I’m here, I don’t think about anywhere else. I’m not speaking for everyone, but it feels like the center of the world. I mean, it really isn’t, but it just feels like home. It’s a weird feeling.
Phil: You are so right. When I’m traveling, and I see something is happening I get major FOMO.
Anna: Yeah. When I’m in New York, I don’t sit around wondering what’s going on in Paris or Berlin or L.A. I’m just like, “Whatever, let people do what they do.”
Phil: Don’t get me wrong—I love LA, and I love Europe. But that’s why I’m here too. I’m from Los Angeles, but I’ve been in New York for 14 years. I like visiting L.A. for work, but after two weeks, I’m like, “Get me out of here. I need to go back to New York.”
The energy here—it’s different. I always think of New York as a country club. You pay your dues to live here, and if you don’t, they kick you out.
Anna: Yeah, exactly. It’s kind of self-eliminating. Laughs.
Phil: And we love a good country club moment.
Anna: Yeah, yeah. Even when I was in L.A.—it’s such a nice city, but it’s nice to know that you’re just visiting and your time there is limited..
Phil: Yeah, totally. I feel like I grew up in New York, even though I moved here when I was 21. I’m a late bloomer for sure, but this is my city. When I go back to L.A., I can still recommend things and have some memories from my childhood, but no—New York is my city.
Anna: Yeah, exactly. I think those are your most formative years. When you’re in school as a kid, you’re just trying to get through the day and grow up. But in your twenties, you have to figure out a job, your life, and how to figure out real-life stuff.
Phil: Yeah! You do your most growth in your twenties, and I’m so happy I went to the School of Life in New York City.
Anna: Exactly. I grew up in Germany, but I never had to get a job there, never had to rent an apartment. I never had to do “real-life” things. So all my adult life experiences are tied to New York.
Phil: Right? I love that we have that in common.I rewatched your Ziwe interview. How was that experience for you?
Anna: The actual interview happened in the summer of 2023—I think we filmed it in July, in my apartment, while I was still on house arrest. It was, I don’t know, a hundred degrees outside. I had one portable AC in my bedroom. Yeah. So it was, it was like a pretty brutal experience from the production perspective because there were like over 20 people in my place, and we had to stop every couple minutes just to get, um, like the sweat off our faces. I don’t know. I think she was nice. Yeah. And I just dunno, which she kind of surprised me by publishing this interview like 15 months later on the day that Dancing with the Stars premiered, like without any kind of warning. Hmm. Um, yeah. I know. I just like, I don’t really like the way I look in there, and like, I kind of look a bit crazy, and I was just extremely hot, and I was wearing this big bulky outfit. But I don’t know. I’ve done it, and I don’t really regret anything. You know what you’re getting into. It’s not going to be like cookie baking, show.
Phil: Did you really make it a part of your contract to have the paparazzi take your picture at the end of the show?
Anna: No, that wasn’t our situation. I think it was just an agreement between our managers. I don’t know. And I had to go out and report for my weekly check-in with ice. So I mean, I don’t care either way. I don’t think I look amazing in those pictures, so yeah. None of this is going to make me or break me. I think it was over-exaggerated, but it is what it is. People who are smart enough and who know how these things work take it with a grain of salt.
Phil: Right. Well, I mean, some people get it, and some people don’t.
Anna: Yeah. I found that out after Inventing Anna
Phil: Are you gonna bring back your stroll fashion runways? Like, are we gonna see another series of fashion looks soon?
Anna: Well, I’m doing, I think, a couple of shows for this Fashion Week. So we’re doing the Kai Combo show that Kelly’s producing, so I’m involved in that. And then I’m walking a couple of others, just finalizing the details now. Um, yeah, it’s just not my favorite Fashion Week in February. The one in September is much bigger. I’m just trying to focus on bigger-scale projects and my next steps, not just going from party to party or event to event because I’d be doing nothing else.
Phil: Yeah, and I mean, ever since Fashion Week left the tents, in my opinion, New York Fashion Week hasn’t felt the same.
Anna: Yeah.
Phil: Like the Bryant Park tents or even Lincoln Center—that was the New York Fashion Week experience.
Anna: Yeah, I know. IMG pulled out of Fashion Week completely.
Phil: Yeah. So now it just feels like a free-for-all. In my opinion, it loses a little bit of that fantasy. Now it’s all about who’s in your front row. It’s not really about the collection anymore—it’s about the spectacle.
Anna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the best one is still in Paris.
And it’s really funny—so many designers are even approaching Kelly, saying, “Oh, do you wanna raise money for us? And then we’ll underpay you” and you just do it.
It’s wild. I think they should change the whole concept. They should allow the general public to buy tickets, and that’s how the designers could finance the venues, models, and production. Because they are just prostituting themselves in other ways in the end, they should still invite the editors and industry people for free but let the general public sit in the fifth row or whatever. But no designers want to do that because it’s frowned upon.
Phil: I agree—there needs to be a better way to fund these fashion houses so they can show. Also, there are fewer and fewer editors, so designers have to ask: is this even a good investment? Like, who is it for?
Anna: Yeah.
Phil: Is it about making sales, or is it just for the press? Some brands have to decide—do we do a campaign or a show? You can’t always do both anymore. There needs to be a restructuring of Fashion Week in New York.
Anna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they spend, what, between $100,000 and $150,000 at a minimum? And sometimes, they get nothing in return.
Phil: Right. No editors, no buyers, and all they got was maybe some social media content.
Anna: Yeah. Like, some mention in Iowa Daily.
Phil: Exactly.
Anna: That must be so disappointing.
Phil: I mean, yeah. But you have to be prepared for that, I feel. If you don’t do it right, it’s a waste. But doing it right is expensive, and the people producing it get underpaid.
Anna: Yeah, exactly. They expect everyone to work for free, pretty much.
Phil: But you are killing it with your art. I see you’ve sold multiple five-figure pieces.
Anna: You’d think it’d be the other way around.
Phil: You just collaborated on prints that you painted on. What else are you working on?
Anna: I am working on another kind of small collection of sketches. I’ve just been very busy. I want to do something based on the word “nothing.”
Phil: Right. I love that you brought that up because I have in my notes, “When is nothing happening?”
Phil: What is nothing?
Anna: We are actually exploring a couple of options now, and I’m being careful about saying too much because who knows what will actually happen. But we have this tote bag that we are about to launch for sale. It’s with the Outlaw Agency, and “nothing” is just such a great word because there’s so much wordplay that can be done with it. And yeah, I guess the next big thing for me is I’d love to do my own fashion brand.
Phil: Yeah, I wanted to ask—are we going to get the correction collection?
Anna: Yeah.
Phil: Finally.
Anna: Yes.
Phil: I would love for that to be your next move. A lot of your story is your fashion sense and your point of view, so it would be amazing to see that come to life.
Anna: Yeah, and it’s something I would love to have myself. I don’t want to put anything out there that I wouldn’t use personally.
Phil: Mm-hmm. I love that. If there’s any way I can help, let me know. And if I think of anyone who can help, I’ll share that with you.
Anna: Yeah, thank you. I’d love for it to be mid-range, so it’s not necessarily a brand that would show during fashion week, but something accessible.
Phil: That’s great. What’s your creative process like when you’re in creative mode? Do you have any rituals or routines?
Anna: I work best when I’m secluded. I don’t like having appointments or running around. I find it really distracting—even just knowing I have to be somewhere at a certain time. I get the most done when I’m upstate. There’s nowhere to go. I know like five people up there.
Phil: Do you get easily distracted?
Anna: It depends. I think everyone gets distracted. I’m working on it. But when I’m excited about something, I focus. Like with the ADF Foundation, I was really excited about it, even though it was a simple idea.
Phil: Are we ever going to get an ADF?
Anna: No, I don’t think I want anything to do with hospitality. I don’t really have much to offer in terms of skills or knowledge. My only value in a project like that would be the media and the outrageousness of it. But I don’t think I’m the right person to run an F&B venture. And private clubs—there are so many. I don’t think the world needs another one. I want to do something different in fashion. I might consult or do something one-off, but I don’t want to center my whole life around it.
Phil: You’re like a patron of the art world.
Anna: Yeah.
Phil: Maybe it’s an evolution of ADF—less hospitality and more curating and showcasing art.
Anna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m open to collaborating if someone wants to buy the building or do an event, but I don’t want to base my whole life around it.
Phil: I love it. It’s like, “not no.” I’m curious how you feel about your situation in this new political era. How does that affect you?
Anna: Yeah. So like, who knows? For now, I don’t think Trump’s major changes that he enacted are like they apply more to the border and to illegal people who come into the country through the southern border. I don’t know. Who knows?
Phil: I was just curious if that changes anything for you.
Anna: Not as far as I know, but yeah, it’s only been five days, so who knows? I have great lawyers, so let’s see what’s gonna happen. It is like, I’m kind of used to living in uncertainty. When I was in jail, I was like, “I’ll get out next week or next year.” And when I was in house rest— I’m used to living on a precipice or something is about to happen or like something is gonna change. It’s never like I was never faced with huge periods when I knew nothing would happen. It’s always something that is always in flux. I think control is just an illusion. You can have a 10-year plan, but you could also get hit by a bus tomorrow.
Phil: Right! You can’t have too much control, and you also can’t be afraid of change. You have to adapt. That’s another reason we gravitate toward New York—it’s in the name. New. There’s always something new happening, and you have to ride the wave. Otherwise, you’ll get swallowed up and drift away.
Anna: Exactly. Like if you constantly need a sense of security and certainty, like New York is just not the place because there’s only so much you can control, and I know some people just get stressed out or shut down when they just cannot be around the corner. But I think it just comes with a good personality. It’s not something that you can cultivate in yourself or train. It’s just it is what it is.
Phil: So, I had a thought. There’s this sorority you’re kind of a part of—with members like Paris Hilton, Martha Stewart, and Lindsay Lohan. Laughs These are powerhouse iconic women who have all worn ankle bracelets. Do you feel like it’s a rite of passage for strong women who aren’t afraid to challenge the system?
Anna: Laughs I mean, no one lives looking for an ankle bracelet. But it’s about how you deal with it—how you turn something negative into something hopefully positive. It’s about dealing with adversity. I guess Paris didn’t plan for it, nor did Lindsay or Martha. But the art is how you flip it into something good. You can either shut down and be sad at home or reframe it and make something out of it. Adversity forces change and keeps you from being stagnant. Who knows what would’ve come out of Martha if none of that had happened? It didn’t seem very good then, but now she couldn’t be doing better. Have you seen her documentary?
Phil: Yeah! I loved that documentary. I have so much more respect for her. As a very gay, gay, I was always fascinated by her, but the documentary made me realize how influential, smart, and business-savvy she really is. It was tough for her to maintain her persona.
Anna: Yeah, and who would’ve known? At the time, it probably felt awful, but if that never happened, she might have just been another old lady cooking from her cookbooks. Laughs
Phil: Right? And now she’s out here roasting Justin Bieber and collaborating with Snoop Dogg.
Anna: Exactly.
Phil: She really reinvented herself.
Anna: Yeah.
Phil: And honestly, all the people I mentioned—including you—have done the same. And you said it so beautifully: it’s about what you make of it.
Anna: Yeah.
Phil: If you have that resilience, no matter what’s thrown your way, you’ll persevere.
Anna: Exactly. Some people have the perfect ideal conditions to do anything, and they never do anything
Phil: Right. So, when you were in jail, you moved around a lot and met so many different people. Is there any piece of advice that stuck with you?
Anna: I guess the women in prison, are the ones who are living with the most uncertainty. It’s just wild. The amount of uncertainty that they just have to deal with daily. Just folks from all sides of the real world because a lot of them might have families and children and husbands and boyfriends. When you’re in prison, you never know; you might get moved from your housing unit for some random reason. Like you got reprogrammed, and then it’s just wild. At least when you are in the real world you don’t have to move out of your apartment on like one hour’s notice. It’s like, it’s very rare that that happens. I guess, looking at them, I can see how much stress they have to deal with on a daily basis. It was, and I always thought of myself like a pretty perseverant person, and I don’t get stressed out easily, but I’d watch these women just accept, “Oh, I’m moving to another prison tomorrow,” and be like, “Okay, girl, it is what it is.”
Phil: Do you still keep in touch with anyone?
Anna: So I’m not all allowed to be in touch with somebody who’s actively in prison. But if you are outside, yeah, I do keep in touch with a lot of them. Yeah. I have lots of people who have my number or I also like, just reconnected with somebody. She was commenting on my friends and she’s like, yeah, I met Anna in jail, and she was so nice and she treated me so well. And I saw her all her DMs because sometimes it’s just hard to go through everything. But now I have her number. I think I’m gonna meet her sometime later this spring. It’s interesting to see what people make out of these situations, especially when they don’t have like, you know, that’s kind of like jail and prison is like a little bit of my brand and I know how to work around it, but it must be so hard to fight the stigma where you just like come from a normal community and especially from a smaller town and you have to face that scrutiny from everyone.
Phil: Right. If you could pass on one life lesson from everything you’ve been through, what would it be?
Anna: Don’t break the law!
Phil: Okay, but seriously.
Anna: Honestly? Learn to deal with adversity. It’s not always bad. Embrace change. Life is about being adaptable.
Phil: When everything’s said and done, how do you want to be remembered?
Anna: As an entrepreneur. Someone who makes things happen. I don’t want to be boxed into this whole reality TV thing. Laughs
Phil: Who has been the most unexpected ally or supporter to aid you?
Anna: Um, I guess Julia Fox. We connected before I went to ICE jail, like randomly, I think a room on Clubhouse back when it existed in like 2021. And she actually kept in touch even when I was in jail. We were always on the phone. So she was like dating Kanye and my series came out. And she really didn’t really have any reason to be nice to me back then I was in jail and who could have known what would’ve happened. So she’s great.
Phil: She saw you—the real you. She said, “This is someone I need in my inner circle.”
Anna : Yeah, because so many people only reach out when they want something—when they want you to come to a party or when there’s some kind of mutual benefit. But with Julia, she was just there for no reason.
Phil: How do you handle friendships now? How do you trust people after everything you’ve been through?
Anna: I think I have a good group of people around me. Many of them have nothing to do with the entertainment industry, and they just don’t care. It’s all about having a mix. I have friends in fashion and art, but I also know people who live on farms and couldn’t care less about going to a party.
Phil: Right.
Anna: That kind of balance keeps you grounded.
Phil: Totally.
Anna: And even Kelly—she works in fashion, but she doesn’t care. She barely even buys clothes. Laughs
Phil: No, she only shops for you and Ava.
Anna: Exactly!
Phil: I know we talked a little about your upcoming projects, but is there anything else you’re working on right now?
Anna: Kelly and I are working on my fake talk show.
Phil: For YouTube?
Anna: Yeah, for both of us—kind of like a talk show.
Phil: I love that.
Anna: Yeah, and we’re also working on our own production company.
Phil: Outlaw is you and Kelly’s agency, right?
Anna: Yeah, exactly. It started with the rooftop show. It was kind of a joke—we just called it “outlaw agency.” But now it’s becoming real.
Phil: Nice! I look forward to seeing what comes from that and more of your artwork. I love your sketches.
Anna: Thank you!
Dress, John Mangru. Earrings and net, Jennifer Behr.
Dress, The Confessional Showroom. Bangle, Skank Chic. Earrings, Saule. Necklace, Nick Horey. 
Dress, SEKS. Glasses, Etro.
